Wanderer Motorhome Page 35

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Driving in France?
Then this web site is a must:
http://about-france.com/travel.htm

email Brian,

Environmentally Safe Toilet Treatment for motorhomes, caravans and boats:
http://www.bioprox.co.uk

For a Holiday with a difference in a Motorhome, see this link:
http://www.landyonline.co.za/off_road/dipli/twd2.htm

Great Ormond Street Hospital
Children's Charity 
Great Ormond Street Hospital, Children's Charity, 40 Bernard Street, London.  WC1N 1LE
Tel: 020 7239 3000 
Click on the link to donate
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/about-us/

As author and maintainer of this web site. I do not save, retain, or sell  any email addresses of those who email me. Should you not get a reply from me, please send again, I might have missed it in my spam catcher!

Additions to Motorhome pages:-
1.Fitting New Automatic Water System Pump
2.Winterising the water pump.
3.Water Tank Level Meter-modification to electronic circuit

4.Basin Mixer Taps - tip & how to repair a dripping tap.
5.Extending Fresh Water Drain Tap to Outside

To Speed up page loading, images are shown as a 'Thumbnail.' Clicking on these will show the complete image

 

To Page Links & Site Index

Contents:  1.   URGENT ATTENTION Luton Water Ingress  2. Another Damp Repair to the Luton Feb2011 

 3. Information from Michael Thomas  4.  How Paul did his Luton re-build.

The procedure is to remove the beading trim around the Luton exterior. 
Any rusted screws discard them and purchase non rusting stainless steel screws. Where the screws have rusted, squeeze some sealant into the hole, or drill new holes and new screws. The old holes should be sealed with the usual sealants.
Clean off the surface as much of the old sealant as possible. I used a sharp edged ice scraper. This then did not remove any paint work.
Ensure the area is cleaned of any water residues.
While the trim is on the floor, place the sealant on it, then replace the trim on the Luton. Help might be needed for this. I manage by screwing the centre portion into an original screw hole, which then hung and allowed me to complete the rest.

[ Oct. 2015 Regarding the above bold font 'stainless steel screws' When I did the described work, I purchased what I thought was stainless steel screws. Recently doing some exterior maintenance I found when giving the described screws a check by tightening up, the screw heads came away in my hand.  I have now purchased proper screws from 'Screwfix,' and will now replace all the securing screws around the Luton edges.
I discovered stainless steel screws have no magnetic properties and require physical handling.

]

Before placing the trim back in position, try and push a hole into the seal with a bradawl, in each screw position, to enable easy screwing in when in position.

At the front top corners, each side, you will find the Aluminium roof covering has been bent over the top and down to the front cross trim. Where this bend is, on the sidewall, you might find, as I did, that this bend is wrinkled and protrudes outwards. Try and hammer it gently, until it's as flat as possible, it will never be completely flat. this will ensure the seal leaves as little room as possible for water ingress.

This method of over the edge construction goes a long way to ensure water flows away from the interior.

On my Motorhome I found the 5 screws on the bottom front of the Luton, each side,  had no timber supports behind them. This meant the screws were held by the GRP Luton covering only. This would account for the water ingress. The screws were not secured properly and allowing the Luton panel to expand then allowing water to get in.

I fitted in each of the 5 positions, a plastic plug, which expanded in the screw hole and behind the GRP panel, allowing the screws to be tightened and securing the trim. To do this meant enlarging the screw holes to accomodate the plugs.
 [ I do not now recommend this method. I have since opened up this corner and fitted Plywood blocks to ensure screws can be secured instead of using the Firbreglass bodywork. ]

[ Feb 2011. Since having done the described work, my van has been through a repair shop 3 times for the same fault. I am now doing the work myself again - see below ]

When doing all this work it is a good idea to inspect the wall panels for pin hole corrosion, which can happen sometimes in Aluminium panels.

When the trim is tightened up the sealant will expand out. This can be cut off with a belt knife. Do not press to hard or you will cut into the aluminium panel. It is only 1mm thick, ONE mm thick!

 
Trim with Sealant ready for Assembly

Trim with Sealant ready for Assembly

 
Luton Showing area with poor assembly of trim

Luton Showing area with poor assembly of trim at the lower left in the picture

 
Luton Showing wrinkled Panel over roof

Luton Showing wrinkled Panel over roof, top left.

 
Trim Assembly Completed

Repair completed waiting for Profile beading.

 
Replacing Trim Plastic

Replacing Trim Beading Profile

 
Showing  Support Areas in Luton

Showing  Trim  Supported  & Non suported Areas in the Luton

 
Typical Water Ingress Damage, in the Luton

Typical Water Ingress Damage, in the Luton

Since carrying out the above repair I found it was not secure enough due to the coachbuilder's construction methods. I had to have the work done professionally by a Motorhome repair workshop. This was because I did not have a garage to enable the damp to be dried out before a repair.

Having completed the side Luton trims it was time to check the two front trims.

I was surprised to find the trims had been given a much improved sealant and were in much better condition.

Having taken them off and confirmed their condition I had to re-install them using the same methods as above on the side trims.

Note the grab rope near ladder, for safety while up the ladder. Just because this was an DIY repair, safety proceedures were followed while using the ladder. A neighbour lasted a week in hospital when he fell off his ladder!

Bottom Trim being removed

Bottom Trim being removed.
Note safety grab rope.

Removing old sealant

Removing old sealant

close up of the 3" Securing screw for the Luton

close up of the 3" Securing screw for the Luton

3" Securing screw for the Luton

3" Securing screw for the Luton

Bottom Trim being removed

Side view of Bottom Trim being removed. Note safety grab rope.

Top trim being prepared for renovation. Showing the old sealant which will be removed with an plastic ice scraper, to ensure the paint is not scraped off with it.

Top trim being prepared for renovation.

Repairs complete

Repairs complete

Safety Grab Rope, secured inside the Luton vent

Safety Grab Rope, secured inside the Luton vent

Safety Grab Rope, secured inside the vent. on the Autohomes Wanderer

Exterior Safety Grab Rope, secured inside the vent.

Another Luton Repair Feb2011 for the same fault

Damp Repair
Damp timbers removed
New timbers in Place

Damp Repair
Damp timbers removed
New timbers in Place

Damp timbers removed
I fitted a new support timber, seen in Place

Sealing Complete, the Panels now in position, showing the panel I damaged during repair.

Oct 2015.
I made a big mistake on the above repair described, the screws used were not stainless steel. During checks this year I found the heads were dropping off when I tweeked them up tighter, due to rust. I am replacing them all with the correct stainless steel screws.

Having spilt my screw tray, I retrieved them with a magnet, I discovered stainless steel screws had no magnetic properties and had to be handled with my fingers.

Trim in position.

Continuing Outside Repairs

Keeping the corners dry during repairs

Keeping the corners dry during repairs

Damp Repair Complete - Showing the Luton Repair Damage

Damp Repair Complete off side.
Showing the Luton Repair Damage

Damp repair completed near side

Damp repair completed near side

Patch panels for the Luton

Patch panels for the Luton
which will cover my damage to the corner.

Patch Panel Showing the inside beaded over

Patch Panel Showing the inside beaded over

Patch panel glued on the off side

Patch panel glued on the off side

New Decals being fitted

New Decals being fitted
by 'Fastsigns' Swansea

Tel; 01792 785070

Unit 2, Minster Court,
Valley Way,
Swansea
SA6 8RN

Patch panel glued on the near side

Patch panel glued on the near side
with the new decals in place

Patch panel glued on the near side
with the new decals in place

Patch panel glued on the near side
with the new decals in place

 

 

In my recent damp repair, [see above] as suggested by Michael Thomas, I used CARAFAX IDL99 non-drying bedding mastic, this accommodate any flexing, and for cleaning the surfaces a kitchen sponge washup soaked in white spirit. The green scouring side does a good job on old stubborn bits of mastic and green algae . Careful you don't go too much or the paint will disappear! The white spirit makes the sealant all mushy enabling a clean sweep. After that I cleaned down with Methylated Spirits to ensure the white spirit is cleaned off, as the mastic will not stick to a white spirit cleaned area.

I also used 6g X 30mm countersink stainless steel screws. The previous ones used were 25mm. I obtained longer screws, just in case they were needed, and again suggested by Michael.

As I have fitted Plywood pieces in around that red bottom corner area, in my pictures. There is now a very secure fitting.

Screws inside the awning rail sit proud, so I used a larger drill than the hole, and countersunk the holes.

 

 I ran the camper off the ramps the next morning there was a noise like a water fall above my head !! No water entered the cab but poured out behind the side door sills.

I removed the aluminium trims on both sides ( not a easy job ) and found the mastic was drying up but the main problem was where the side and front alli skin meet the fibre glass. The two vertical surfaces and the fibre glass all come together on that corner and there is no real seal. On examination the water had entered there and rotted the wood so the short screws no longer held the surfaces together plus the mastic had died. The inner corner of the luton had rotted which I had just thought was condensation due to air circulation in corners. There was also a leak along the two horizontal seams above the fibreglass. Long stainless screws and new mastic and it's all back together.  It was a self draining leak so if I'd not been up on ramps I would have not found it !!

regards   Michael Thomas

 

Hello Brian,

Good web site with lots of information; well done.  I had only come across your article on the Wanderer.

Very interesting set of pictures, looks just like mine except side panels are flatter without the pebble effect. One difference is that when I replaced the trims I put the mastic all over the seams on the van not on the alli trim, building up a thick bead and forcing it between the overlapping surfaces. My reasoning being that if I plastered the sealer all over the joint areas that is where it's really needed. The down side to this is it's messy when you screw the trim back as it squeezes out over the panels, but I am sure it's where it needs to be.

One side I cleaned straight away with scraper and white spirit the other side due to the cold wet weather I had to leave for 3-4 days. When I cleaned this side I found the mastic had formed a very thin skin which helped with the removal, much easier job. By gently pushing and lifting the bead it ended up on the top of the scraper without all the 'stringy' bits. A clean with white spirit and it hardly notices.

I used CARAFAX IDL99 non-drying bedding mastic and for cleaning the surfaces a kitchen sponge washup soaked in white spirit. The green scouring side does a good job on old stubborn bits of mastic and green algae . Careful you don't go too much or the paint will disappear !

I also used 40mm stainless steel screws (Turbo Ultra) from screwfix, the heads where too large a diameter to fit well in the alli trim so I reduced them on the workshop bench grinder. These screws have a self cutting point which bit into the fibre glass very well. I had to drill new fixing points around that red area on your pictures. The screws are only holding the alli trim so don't need to be very tight only keeping the mastic in place.

I wanted to check where the water was getting in so I only did the side trims first, it still leaked. I removed the two front horizontal trims and used the gaffer tape to seal top and bottom as a temporary measure, no more leaks. Left it for a few days and all was ok, so refitted the front trims same method as before, no leaks. The area is still drying and with a hole in the corner on the inside where the wood used to be there is an air draft which is helping to dry it out completely. I've also drilled vent holes on the inside of the other front corner as I could not see the extent of the damp there, but just playing safe.

The plastic trim that covers the screw heads on the alli trim is a right pain to fit (very sore fingers and thumbs), have you found a quick painless method of fitting it ?

Interesting note about drain holes in the underside of the fibre glass luton moulding, we are not alone with this problem;  (that maybe condensation forming and running down inside).

regards  Michael.


From Paul
btwjoomla.co.uk

paul [at]btwjoomla.co.uk

Referring to the diagram, destruction stage.

Screw fittings in the Luton

in similar position to the ones you removed at the left end. but you can't get at them due to the toilet front wall,.  Therefore I used a Not shown on diagram is the u shaped wood that the cab curtain rail is attached to, this comes off in one u-shaped piece once the visible screws are removed. See pictures below.

Remove the hinged part of the bed base, 3 hinges.

Remove the grey felt completely on the remaining bed base.

In order to get at the main bolts first remove screws on left and right of the bed base, those screw horizontally to the wood that the outside trim is fixed to on the vehicle sides.

Then remove 3 screws from the rear facing left part of the base, they are accessed from the vertical grey piece just inside the camper side door. The felt will need pulling back. There is a strip of wood on top too, actually it's fixed by vertical screws under the coving strip, I levered my one off.

Standing on the seats one can undo the bolts marked as 0's which run through the bed base and there are attached under-pieces of wood which is profile curved to match the metal cab roof and supports the base at rear. The nuts are underneath the metal roof.

On the right rear of the bed base the 3 retaining screws are jigsaw to cut along the join between the vertical part and the bed base, couldn't cut the 3 screws, so removed the nuts below first so I could lift the bed base once its free [see below, after nuts are removed etc], and by levering the two apart could get a manchester screwdriver in the gap to lever /rip the two parts apart.

Remove all the nuts and worry the bed base up enough to free the bolts from the metal roof.

Then push the bolts up and through the base vertically, I used a single nut and hit each bolt with that nut on, then spannered at the top with vertical pull, if damp they are difficult to remove.

At some point you need to separate the bed base from the extra profiled wood that acts as support between bed base and metal roof.  I levered mine apart in fact there are only around 4 screws holding the profiled wood to the bed base, I got enough gap to get a hacksaw in and cut the screws.

One can't lift the bed base back end easily.. because the base front is attached to some wood cross beams that form the front wall attachment. In my case I was able to jig saw near the bottom edge of the front wall, thus splitting that 6 inch high section. Of course one needs care not to over stress the fibreglass, but the front of the bed is not attached to the fibreglass itself.  the very front cross beams are attached, I think to the long screws that hold the outside front lower outside trim in place.

So these instructions are vague because it depends on how rotten the front area is, as to how easy it is the get the bed base to separate or free up, as a unit.

Certainly you are going to need to rebuild the whole area, as one can't get the bed base out as a whole unit because it was put in before the toilet wall was constructed.

Therefore prop the base above the fibreglass and jigsaw back to front thus cutting the base in two. It seems to be just an edge framed unit with pink foam insulation, with 3 or 4 mm board top and bottom.

Anyway, after you get the bed base out its going to need replacement of the wood side strips that the outside trim screws are screwed into. So that's the time to remove the outside fixing screws.  And you'll probably find the side walls are black under the wallpaper, so side wall areas need replacing too.

When you've stripped much of the innards out you're left with outside trim screws that need removing to go any further.

Regarding the drainage holes see the pics, from inside and outside. [Pictures below]
Water travels to those areas from the leaking corners. If you drill those holes the camper van doesn't need to be covered because the incoming water finds its way out.

Suggested Drain Hole

Suggested Interior Drain Hole

Right Side Luton damp Damage


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